Reminds me of this from Keynes, "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren" (1930).
"When the accumulation of wealth is no longer of high social importance, there will be
great changes in the code of morals. We shall be able to rid ourselves of many of the pseudo-moral principles which have hag-ridden us for two hundred years, by which we have exalted some of the most distasteful of human qualities into the position of the highest virtues. We shall be able to afford to dare to assess the money-motive at its true value. The love of money as a
possession -as distinguished from the love of money as a means to the enjoyments and realities of life -will be recognised for what it is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semicriminal, semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to the specialists in mental disease."
I have always liked Keynes; this statement from almost 100 years ago confirms why. Thank you for posting this; I have long thought that the hoarding of money is a mental illness. It should not be lauded as some sort og achievement in business, as it is now, but viewed as a illness where the individual needs therapy and healing, more often than not, from childhood trauma.
Still digging Perry. In many ways it forms another aspect of psychopathy. But there are features more consistent with depression + personality disorder. Some have suggested managing it as an addiction disorder. Either way, it is an undeveloped state.
Excellent food for thought today, Dr. Goyal! All of your points appear to be based upon science and what appears greatest to my simple mind is the presence or lack of presence of empathy, truly caring for others, whether known or unknown.
Thank you, Dr. G, for a thought provoking look at the neuroscience of greed. You are on the right track!
The phrase “hungry ghost” comes to mind — an insatiable abyss at the center. To me it was significant that while everyone else pictured had their hands on their hearts at Jimmy Carter’s funeral, Trump had his hand on his belly, around the 3rd chakra, the area of self-concept, which would be where his insatiable abyss resides.
I went for a walk after I read this and I was so inspired, so many thoughts in my head, that I started my phone recording and dictated everything I was thinking. A half an hour later... Truly, a half an hour!..... I had all sorts of thoughts recorded and I was on my way back home. Thanks for putting this together and making sense of a little piece of the world.
Yes! I am currently at a jazz jam feeding my soul but I plan to publish the raw audio and the edited text ASAP. I often dictate into my phone, but this has the added sound effects of scuffing leaves, panting, and birds singing. Seems like it will be a fun listen though it's full of random interruptions like saying hi to the guy with the dog....
“Excessive exposure to consumerism and materialism is damaging to both the individual brain and the civility that binds society together.” This goes a long way to explain the global madness that leaves us all in poverty.
Thank you so much for this excellent scientific explanation.of greed, Dr. Goyal; it confirms my long-term observations and personal analysis. In short, a lack of parental nurturing in the early years of childhood development along with an undue and unhealthy emphasis on the accumulation of money, has limited the development of parts of the brain that control empathy, compassion, etc.
Such persons have suffered harm. How much harm these persons have suffered is open to further debate and analysis. I do hold a view and I have shared it here. It is anecdotal, but it holds some merit.
I am one of those non-scientists who view excessive greed, the hoarding of the billionaires, for example, as a serious mental illness. While they can choose otherwise, their early conditioning makes it more difficult to do so. As is society's current emphasis on money an obstacle to change. That they can function in society is more a testament to society's unwellness than their saneness.
Love this and am wondering if "generosity" of spirit, time and things would be the opposing force/emotion. Indeed, is there any evidence that generosity can counterbalance greed?
I'm thinking, for instance, of highly successful people who are generous in their support and encouragement. They seem to be very comfortable in their own skin and not need to leverage a propensity to greed.
To empathise and show compassion is higher order. It is interesting as to what makes someone who is previously very greedy turn moderate and charitable. Life events, perhaps. But I suspect that the act of generosity eventually leads to compassion and higher order thinking.
That is a big part in why the research is ongoing. But it does seem to be at least partially modifiable. I suspect starting with action - contribute to society - would lead to a change in the neural pathways over time. I’m still digging.
Dear Dr. Goyal, thank you very much for shedding light on this. It is fascinating how the corticolimbic system is responsible for complex social interactions such as greed that go far beyond the simple formula that the amygdala "colors" emotions and the hippocampus is essential for processing memories. The way this might be related to not getting satisfaction and therefore reacting with anger and depression was illuminating to me. Thank you!
Do be careful using the term civility. Civilized means domesticated. Literally domesticated. Humans are animals and psychopaths have domesticated vast swaths of us. No critical thinking skills. No threat assessment skills. Complete dependency on hierarchies.
Hey Jasmine, I’m using it in the tamed (regulation of primal impulses) and the sense of getting on with each other for the greater good sense. Appreciate, sometimes humanity would be a better word.
I'm stating that the ruling class, whom are psychopaths, have literally domesticated vast swaths of our species. They use the word civilized when they really mean the human's spirit has been broken and they are now passive. Countries/people who don't observe the rules based colonial order are considered savages. Yet those people just aren't domesticated (oppressed) yet. Civilized is an insult. Sheep are civilized too. What you should say is that we need to be kind to each other. Cooperate instead of compete.
There is a movie about Getty All the Money in the World and when Getty was dying he said he wants more. Then I understood, more means mental illness. He was miserable. And you article proved it. I am on opposite spectrum, I want less. So less, I went to live off the grid and the less I want, the happier I am. It is shocking but awesome. We live like in 18 century but we are more content.
Reminds me of this from Keynes, "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren" (1930).
"When the accumulation of wealth is no longer of high social importance, there will be
great changes in the code of morals. We shall be able to rid ourselves of many of the pseudo-moral principles which have hag-ridden us for two hundred years, by which we have exalted some of the most distasteful of human qualities into the position of the highest virtues. We shall be able to afford to dare to assess the money-motive at its true value. The love of money as a
possession -as distinguished from the love of money as a means to the enjoyments and realities of life -will be recognised for what it is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semicriminal, semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to the specialists in mental disease."
I have always liked Keynes; this statement from almost 100 years ago confirms why. Thank you for posting this; I have long thought that the hoarding of money is a mental illness. It should not be lauded as some sort og achievement in business, as it is now, but viewed as a illness where the individual needs therapy and healing, more often than not, from childhood trauma.
Still digging Perry. In many ways it forms another aspect of psychopathy. But there are features more consistent with depression + personality disorder. Some have suggested managing it as an addiction disorder. Either way, it is an undeveloped state.
Well written and documented.
Excellent food for thought confirming many suspicions that this ubiquitous behavior of lack of empathy
in the community of oligarchs is kin to mental illness.
Yes, like Siamese twins are akin to each other
Excellent food for thought today, Dr. Goyal! All of your points appear to be based upon science and what appears greatest to my simple mind is the presence or lack of presence of empathy, truly caring for others, whether known or unknown.
Thank you, Dr. G, for a thought provoking look at the neuroscience of greed. You are on the right track!
Richard 👍
Thank you for this, Dan.
The phrase “hungry ghost” comes to mind — an insatiable abyss at the center. To me it was significant that while everyone else pictured had their hands on their hearts at Jimmy Carter’s funeral, Trump had his hand on his belly, around the 3rd chakra, the area of self-concept, which would be where his insatiable abyss resides.
Excellent article so informative. Loved the finish where to some degree it is a choice. Great research
I went for a walk after I read this and I was so inspired, so many thoughts in my head, that I started my phone recording and dictated everything I was thinking. A half an hour later... Truly, a half an hour!..... I had all sorts of thoughts recorded and I was on my way back home. Thanks for putting this together and making sense of a little piece of the world.
Literally the most encouraging response I’ve ever had. Would love to hear what thoughts you had? Are you putting them into a post?
Yes! I am currently at a jazz jam feeding my soul but I plan to publish the raw audio and the edited text ASAP. I often dictate into my phone, but this has the added sound effects of scuffing leaves, panting, and birds singing. Seems like it will be a fun listen though it's full of random interruptions like saying hi to the guy with the dog....
OK, the post is up. It's rougher than I usually publish, but I enjoyed just following the inspiration: https://open.substack.com/pub/babblery/p/how-to-quantify-a-rich-life?r=h87dy&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
I also put the (almost) raw audio on my podcast: https://babblery.com/2025/01/minibabble-thinking-about-greed-in-the-redwoods/
Thanks for the inspiration!
“Excessive exposure to consumerism and materialism is damaging to both the individual brain and the civility that binds society together.” This goes a long way to explain the global madness that leaves us all in poverty.
"They are less because they constantly want more." Wow. This is both fascinating and sad. Great piece!
Thank you so much for this excellent scientific explanation.of greed, Dr. Goyal; it confirms my long-term observations and personal analysis. In short, a lack of parental nurturing in the early years of childhood development along with an undue and unhealthy emphasis on the accumulation of money, has limited the development of parts of the brain that control empathy, compassion, etc.
Such persons have suffered harm. How much harm these persons have suffered is open to further debate and analysis. I do hold a view and I have shared it here. It is anecdotal, but it holds some merit.
I am one of those non-scientists who view excessive greed, the hoarding of the billionaires, for example, as a serious mental illness. While they can choose otherwise, their early conditioning makes it more difficult to do so. As is society's current emphasis on money an obstacle to change. That they can function in society is more a testament to society's unwellness than their saneness.
Again, thank you for this very important post.
That is deep, Perry, and rings true for me. Why society puts up with it?
There is starting to be more discussion around this issue, and thus more general awareness. You and I are part of this discussion.
Excellent additional resources at the end of your article, Dr. G!
Richard
Love this and am wondering if "generosity" of spirit, time and things would be the opposing force/emotion. Indeed, is there any evidence that generosity can counterbalance greed?
I'm thinking, for instance, of highly successful people who are generous in their support and encouragement. They seem to be very comfortable in their own skin and not need to leverage a propensity to greed.
Love to hear your thoughts
To empathise and show compassion is higher order. It is interesting as to what makes someone who is previously very greedy turn moderate and charitable. Life events, perhaps. But I suspect that the act of generosity eventually leads to compassion and higher order thinking.
Fascinating. Thank you. Are there ways to overcome or combat the greediness?
That is a big part in why the research is ongoing. But it does seem to be at least partially modifiable. I suspect starting with action - contribute to society - would lead to a change in the neural pathways over time. I’m still digging.
Dear Dr. Goyal, thank you very much for shedding light on this. It is fascinating how the corticolimbic system is responsible for complex social interactions such as greed that go far beyond the simple formula that the amygdala "colors" emotions and the hippocampus is essential for processing memories. The way this might be related to not getting satisfaction and therefore reacting with anger and depression was illuminating to me. Thank you!
And there are cases where empathy is developed but poverty in childhood emphasizes a desire to accumulate excess goods.
Very true, Malcolm. A secure upbringing also includes some distance from poverty.
Do be careful using the term civility. Civilized means domesticated. Literally domesticated. Humans are animals and psychopaths have domesticated vast swaths of us. No critical thinking skills. No threat assessment skills. Complete dependency on hierarchies.
Hey Jasmine, I’m using it in the tamed (regulation of primal impulses) and the sense of getting on with each other for the greater good sense. Appreciate, sometimes humanity would be a better word.
I'm stating that the ruling class, whom are psychopaths, have literally domesticated vast swaths of our species. They use the word civilized when they really mean the human's spirit has been broken and they are now passive. Countries/people who don't observe the rules based colonial order are considered savages. Yet those people just aren't domesticated (oppressed) yet. Civilized is an insult. Sheep are civilized too. What you should say is that we need to be kind to each other. Cooperate instead of compete.
There is a movie about Getty All the Money in the World and when Getty was dying he said he wants more. Then I understood, more means mental illness. He was miserable. And you article proved it. I am on opposite spectrum, I want less. So less, I went to live off the grid and the less I want, the happier I am. It is shocking but awesome. We live like in 18 century but we are more content.
Admirable